by Barry Carter






Question: How can I get some of the monoatomic White Powder Gold?


Answer: It has not been conclusively demonstrated whether the strange materials David Hudson identified are monatomic or not. Some scientists have suggested that the only way they could have the properties that they have is if they are di-atomic or greater.


Since we do not wish to prejudice the scientific process we have decided not to call them monatomic unless this issue is resolved. Instead we call them m-state or ORMUS elements. The “m” in m-state could mean monatomic, microcluster or even manna. You can read a scientist’s explanation of why these elements should not be monatomic at:




Apparently, David Hudson used the term "White Powder Gold" as a generic term for all of the precious metal elements in their m-state form. Hudson never made very much of the white powder of gold because his ore source had relatively little m-gold in it.


David Hudson's colleague who did the 41 day fast was using a powder composed of several m-state elements with less than 1% of the powder being white gold. The current thinking of most experts, including Hudson, is that once the m-state is dried out into a powder it is much less easy for the body to assimilate.


It is possible to purchase m-state gold in a relatively pure form as a wet precipitate. Many of the people who have tried the m-state gold for a length of time do not like it for a variety of reasons. Some feel that it makes them lethargic. Some feel that it puts them so much in the moment that they forget to do the things which are important to make their lives work. One long-term researcher claims that the m-gold "locks" a person into their present condition, whatever that may be.


The easiest way to get m-state gold is to use the Wet Method on Dead Sea salt as the resulting precipitate is claimed to be 70% m-gold and 30% magnesium.


You can see what percentage of the m-state elements is in various seawater sources at:




Your best way to get the m-state materials is to make them yourself using the methods described at:




Question: What is the difference between ORMUS, m-state and ORME?


Answer: The three terms above all mean pretty much the same thing but they originated in different situations.

I learned how to make the white precipitate from the Essene on May 18, 1997. He called all of the white precipitates from various sources m-state. These sources included the white precipitate from the Wet Method on ocean water or Dead Sea salt and the white precipitate from the Sodium Burn on metallic gold and black sand. He also referred to David Hudson's products as m-state and, when I told him of the ORMUS products that Jim made from metal using ozone we both spoke of these substances as being m-state materials.


Just prior to my first visit with the Essene we set up a "private" email list to evaluate and promote various ORMUS production methods. The folks on this list (about 60 people) agreed to the following wording of the ORMUS method document after nearly a year of experimentation and discussion:


"Since Hudson has patented his process for obtaining and identifying these elements, we would like to suggest that the terms ORMUS and m-state be used when referring to this state of matter."


It was our intention to honor Hudson by using his term "ORMUS" and to honor the Essene by using his term "M-State". Both of these terms were originally used to cover all of these elements as they occur in a non-metallic form in nature.


We rejected the use of the acronym ORME (which stands for Orbitally Re-arranged Monoatomic Element) because there was no good scientific evidence that these materials were orbitally re-arranged or monatomic. I still have not seen any evidence of this.


You can read a longer explanation of the reasons for these definitions at:



You can read a discussion about why many of us do not think they are monatomic at:



Question: Will the "good stuff", the real White Powder Gold, allow me to ascend?


Answer: People are always asking about the ability of the white powder of gold to act as a sort of  "enlightenment pill". An "enlightenment pill" would be some substance that would cause any person who takes it to instantly transcend, ascend, awaken or "see" God.


Belief in the concept of an enlightenment pill seems to be rooted in the deeper belief that enlightenment can come from outside of the self. This belief is almost the same as the belief that someone else is responsible for the mess that "I" am in right now.


Let's imagine that the ORMUS elements can improve the connection to spirit. Now, let's pretend that each of us is actually responsible for everything which has ever happened to us. Imagine that you are responsible for the manifestation of what you want and also responsible for the manifestation of what you don't want, in your life.


If the ORMUS elements are a connecting medium between "spirit and mind/matter" then they might work sort of like the air which connects us with the resonance of sound. I can speak and, if the air is thick enough to sustain life, you can hear what I say.


If the air is thicker, like at sea level, the sound of my voice will travel faster and clearer than if the air is thinner, like on a mountain top. This is the reason that you can hear a train coming, by putting your ear to the iron rail, long before you can hear the train through the air. The denser the substance the faster sound will travel through it. ORMUS would be a very dense medium for carrying our thoughts and feelings.


Now imagine that you are standing on a ledge in the Grand Canyon. You shout out a word and a few seconds later the echo comes back to you. It startles you because it seems like someone else is standing next to you and has shouted back the same thing that you shouted. Perhaps you shouted out "I love you" or perhaps you shouted out "I hate you".


The Grand Canyon is so big that the echo is delayed a long time. This makes it seem that the echo you hear is coming from someone else. If you hear the words "I love you" you feel really good about yourself but if you hear the words "I hate you" you might become frightened because you think that someone wishes to harm you.


If the ORMUS elements are a medium of communication between mind and spirit they would bring us back the echo of whatever we are thinking about ourselves.


Suppose you had two bells outside your front door. One of these bells sounds wonderful and the other sounds horrible. The wonderful sounding bell attracts laughing, happy children to your front door and the horrible sounding bell attracts violent, vicious criminals to your door.


Now suppose that the wonderful bell rings whenever you think about what you want and the horrible bell rings whenever you think about what you don't want. What would happen if the air, which carries the sound of the bell, suddenly became thicker. What if it became infinitely thick so that every thought would instantly manifest those things that were in resonant harmony with it.


I think that this is what happens with ORMUS, especially the "good stuff". I think it carries the resonance of our thoughts and beliefs and brings back the echo of their manifestation very quickly. If this is true then here is a way to tell if you are ready for the "good stuff".


First, examine your life--do things you don't like ever happen to you? Would you be happier if these things were intensified and more instantly connected to the thoughts that called them in? Conversely, notice how regularly the things you do like happen to you. When you wake up in the morning do you contemplate your day with delicious anticipation or do you dread going to work? Which bell do you ring as you go out your front door?


Your beliefs are habits, which ORMUS will not change. When you take ORMUS it does not steal your free choice. It does not make you think only of what you want and prevent you from thinking of what you don't want. You still can choose which bell you are going to ring with each thought. Are you sure you always think of your angels and never think of your demons--for whichever you think of you will manifest in your life and this manifestation will only be hastened and heightened by the ingestion of the "good stuff".

You can read a cautionary story about the "good stuff" at:




Question: Which product is best for me?


Answer: You are changing all of the time. The best product for you today might not be the best one for you tomorrow or next year. Each of us is different. There is no single product which is best for all people. Some products may be better for certain conditions than others but, at this point, we do not know which product is best for which condition.


Your best bet for finding a product which works well for you is to try several different products. Have someone muscle test you on each of them. Read the WhiteGold list and archives for the effects that others have reported for the product of interest.

Question: Why does ORMUS "dislike" magnetic fields?

< style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">Answer: In his Tampa workshop David Hudson said:

1:47:35 - I've found that there are four substances that pin these high spin atoms and take them back to the low spin state.  Those substances are sulfites (SO3), carbon and carbon monoxide, nitric oxide, and short wavelength radiation (deep ultraviolet or shorter). That's what caused this stuff to explode in sunlight, I found out later. So there are four major things which cause this to go back to the low spin state. So, actually, in your body there are four things which cause this to go back to the low spin state. So that in your body it kills the light.  It causes them to go back to the low spin state.

1:48:15 - I will say that when nitric oxide interreacts with these elements, taking them back to the low spin state, that it does involve a phenomenon called electron annihilation.  And the actual nitric oxides instead of being nitrogen 14 becomes radioactive carbon 14 when that occurs.  So that in your body, when dying you are producing radioactive carbon 14.  It gets in your body a different way than they tell you it does.< style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;"> When Jim learned this he realized that his ozone was probably doing something similar and that is why he had the fibers of gold grow inside his hands.

< style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">Based on these experiences Jim designed the first magnetic traps to get ORMUS to levitate out of ordinary ground water. The traps work on the principle that the ORMUS in the water is repelled by the magnetic fields in the trap. Jim also did another experiment in which he pulsed a very high energy magnetic field under concentrated ORMUS liquid. This liquid "boiled like gasoline" though it was not warm at all. We postulate that the gas coming off of the liquid was ORMUS vapor.

< style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">From these and other experiences we hypothesized that the Meissner effect on the ORMUS causes it to retreat from electromagnetic fields. We believe that this effect is energizing for the ORMUS at first but that when it reaches a certain level (Hc2) the Meissner effect breaks down and the superconductive ORMUS drops toward a metallic state. Don Nance demonstrated this by drying sea water precipitate on an electric burner, or by exposing it to UV light, or by microwaving it in a microwave oven. In each case, there was an increase in the metallic content of the precipitate which further increased over a period of six months.

< style="font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">Based on all of this, we have concluded that ORMUS is energized at first when exposed to high energy electromagnetic fields but is later moved toward the metallic state as the field exposure continues. Since we don't have any way to identify the break over point, we recommend that you avoid exposing ORMUS to sunlight or electromagnetic fields.

This would include things like cordless phones, cell phones, bluetooth devices, microwave ovens, electric burners, wireless networks and high voltage electric lines. I also try to avoid hanging out in line with the axis of spin of motors, hard drives and electric generators.

<>Question: Does anyone sell ORMUS materials?


Answer: If, for some reason, you cannot make your own there are several good sources for these materials. These sources are listed in no particular order since I do not wish to suggest a preference. In fact, there are many people who prefer each of these sources and I suspect that each will meet the needs of different people. ORMUS Sources


Question: The most recent information on the Internet about David Hudson and his production facility is dated 1996. What has happened since then with David Hudson and his plans?


Answer: Mr. Hudson is not in production. There is some question about whether he will ever get into production.


David Hudson has faced a number of difficulties in getting his ORMUS production on line. When his plant was five days into a test run in the summer of 1998, a nitric acid tank sprang a leak. Fortunately Hudson had a concrete catch basin, which contained the acid. Unfortunately the emergency response team from the fire department sprayed foam on the acid instead of simply diluting it with water. The foam reacted with the acid and generated a large cloud of orange nitric acid gas. Several hundred people had to be evacuated from the surrounding area.


As a consequence of this event Hudson was fined and forced to think about moving his plant.


A short time after the acid leak Hudson had a heart attack. He had to have six bypasses. Subsequent to his surgery he had additional heart problems but seems to be doing well now.


His plant is still not ready for production. The delays cost him a great deal of money and this set him back even further. Now he must move his plant into a properly zoned area. In November of 2000 he sent out his last newsletter titled "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" in this newsletter he suggested that his plant has been "regulated out of existence".


His most recent public lecture was a December 99 lecture in Dallas which was videotaped by the Eclectic Viewpoint.


Question: How can I get in touch with other people who share my interest in the ORMUS materials?


Answer: There are several email lists for discussion of ORMUS and related topics.


I recently set up a new forum for newcomers to the ORMUS field of study. This forum is on YahooGroups and is called simply ORMUS. Here are the commands for this list:


Post message:     ORMUS@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe:            ORMUS-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribe:        ORMUS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

List owner:           ORMUS-owner@yahoogroups.com


You can also subscribe on line at:




When you subscribe to this list you will be sent a message requesting more information about you and how you learned about this list. You must send a response to this request in order before I will add you to the list. This is necessary to prevent spammers from joining the list and posting.

The main ORMUS forum is called the WhiteGold List. The WhiteGold List is a moderated email list. This means that the moderator of the list reviews every post you send to the list before it gets sent on to the whole list.


Since its inception in February of 1996 it has been the policy of the WhiteGold List to keep the names and contact information of its subscribers as private as those subscribers wish to be. We determine whether a person wishes to make this kind of information available to the entire list by whether or not they include this kind of information in the body of their post or in their signature lines. If you include only your first name at the bottom of your post that is all that will be included in the "From:" line in the header.


The WhiteGold List is for the sharing of personal experiences with the ORMUS substances. There is some scientific discussion but we discourage religious and political discussion because of the great diversity of people who are interested in ORMUS. The WhiteGold List averages about 25 messages per day. To join the WhiteGold list send a message to WhiteGold-request@zz.com with the subject Subscribe.


The WhiteGold list is a very active list. Folks on the list are generally quite willing to answer questions so you may generate some interesting responses by posting your questions to this list.


If you do not wish to get 25 or more emails a day from the WhiteGold list, you have the option of joining the digest version of the list. All of the posts are there but you get them in one digest message a day. To join the WhiteGold digest list send a message to WhiteGold-request@zz.com with the subject Subscribe digest.


If this does not work contact sumro@zz.com .


The ORMUS and Spirit list was created as a place where people can freely discuss religious and spiritual issues. Anyone can join this list and it is not moderated or anonymous. This forum averages about one message per day. Here are the commands for this list:


Post message:         ORMUSandSpirit@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe:                ORMUSandSpirit-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribe:            ORMUSandSpirit-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

List owner:               ORMUSandSpirit-owner@yahoogroups.com


You can also subscribe on line at:




When you subscribe to this list you will be sent a message requesting more information about you and how you learned about this list. You must send a response to this request in order before I will add you to the list. This is necessary to prevent spammers from joining the list and posting.

In addition to these forums there are over 100 local area ORMUS email lists. There is generally a local list centered within a hundred miles of most places in the United States and there are over 25 lists outside the USA.

These local ORMUS lists were created so that people can meet in person to work together on ORMUS related stuff. I also post information about upcoming ORMUS related meetings and lectures when they are to occur in a local area.

Contact me for a link to these local ORMUS email lists.

They are not moderated or anonymous. If you would like to set up a workgroup in your area please let me know what country you live in and what city you live near. I regularly get reports of results from people, on these local lists, who have been making and ingesting their own m-state materials.

I initially started setting up the local area ORMUS email lists in January of 1999 so that folks who are interested in ORMUS would have a way to get together in person to work on ORMUS related projects. Some of the projects that I envisioned at the time are:

While all of these joint projects are useful in themselves they also help to build community among people who have many common goals and values. I believe that community building is a very important thing right now. People who are good at working together are most likely to prosper in times of changing social structures.

I would like to encourage everyone who reads this to join a local ORMUS group. I am looking for volunteers to coordinate the local groups.

Remember, it is always best to have your own local source of supply for something as precious and useful as ORMUS.

Question: How can I learn more about ORMUS?


Answer: You can find basic descriptions of ORMUS at:


ORMUS – Basic Overview by Barry Carter


ORMUS – What is it?


ORMUS - Scientific Overview by Barry Carter


An illustrated article on ORMUS can be found at:


Ancient Puzzles

by Barry Carter


Articles on various ORMUS related subjects can be found at:




David Hudson's lectures, patents and other related materials can be found at:


What Is It?


Question: Are there any reports from people who have used these materials?


Answer: You can find a number of these reports at:




Question: How might I contribute to ORMUS research?


Answer: There are many ways you can contribute. Two ways that I would suggest initially are to support this work financially by donating money and contribute by documenting your ORMUS experiences.

If you wish to make a monetary contribution contact me at sumro@zz.com.


Everyone who uses ORMUS is in a great position to contribute to our understanding of what it is and how it works. The easiest way to do this is to document the changes you experience with it.


Some of the most remarkable documentation that we have is from those few people who thought to take before pictures of problem areas. I just wish more people would do this.


One of the best set of pictures we have is the before and after picture of the tooth at:




and the beard at:




The "after" picture alone totally looses its impact without the "before" picture for comparison.


I just wish we had the before picture for Tut's tail at:




I also wish I had a before picture of the hands described in this quote:


"My hands were claw-like, arched and impossible to lay flat, with all fingers splayed apart due to the calcium deposits on the knuckles that forced the fingers outward. Each joint has calcium deposits that have twisted the fingers; in addition to looking old and awful, very painful. I can now lay my hands flat, and the fingers on the right hand are almost completely touching each other."


We have an after picture at:




In this case one picture would have been worth much more than 67 words.


I asked this woman to take a before picture but she put it off. She did not expect the changes to happen so quickly.


Here is a list of documentation steps which would help the cause if lots of folks were to start them before starting their use of the ORMUS substances.


1. List all of your existing health problems and get a medical checkup which will document the existence of these problems.


2. Photograph every part of the body that might change with ORMUS ingestion. The following areas are particularly suggested:


    a. The face including details of wrinkles and sagging skin.

    b. Hair color. Get good close ups of any hair which has become gray.

    c. Hair growth patterns and thickness (this would include baldness and hair loss)

    d. Both sides of both hands.

    e. Any scars, skin cancers or skin conditions like psoriasis or shingles.

    f.  Swollen joints like finger joints, knees, wrists and elbows.

    g. Any broken or cracked teeth and visible cavities.

    g. A good picture of the spine which might show any spinal misalignment.

    h. A picture which shows the whole body profile.

    I. A picture which shows the whole body from the front.

    j. A picture which shows the whole body from behind.


The last three pictures would reveal hip rotations, differences in leg or arm lengths or other posture problems and should be taken with little or no clothing on. If you are modest about this sort of thing you can take the pictures with a film camera, leave the film undeveloped and store it in a safe place. Women may wish to take photos which show breast size and sag as both conditions have been known to change with the use of ORMUS substances.


These pictures can be taken with a digital camera, a disposable film camera, a video camera or a regular film camera. Every person will not need to take every picture. Just take pictures of those areas where change might happen.


3. Make tracings of the feet and hands. Some people have reported that their fingers and toes have gotten longer.


4. Measure your height. This should be done immediately after rising from bed in the morning as this is the time of maximum height during the day. Some people may get as much as 1.5 inches shorter over the course of the day. Several people have reported ORMUS related changes in their height. One woman has gotten 3.5 inches taller at the age of 53.


5. Check the pH of your saliva and urine first thing in the morning and last thing at night for a week before starting with a new ORMUS product.


6. Document changes in frequency, color, odor and ease of urination.


7. Document any changes in stool softness, regularity, color and whether it floats or not.


8. Document any changes in the sound you hear when things are quiet. Many people have reported that they hear a sound in their head after using ORMUS for a while. This sound is called the "hu" or "nada". Notice any changes in the frequency of this sound, it's intensity or the nature of the sound. I always hear a high frequency sound at around 11,000 Hz and occasionally hear a chirping sound in my right ear. You can download a trial version of the NCH Tone Generator which can be used to compare frequency at:




9. Document any noticeable changes in tooth pain, new teeth, tooth alignment, filling in of cavities or other changes in the teeth.


10. Women should document any changes in their period including changes in the level of menstrual cramping, PMS, periodicity changes, flow levels and resumption of menstruation after menopause.


11. Everyone should document changes in sexual response or orgasm intensity.


12. Some people have noticed that it is easier to quit addictive behaviors like smoking or other drug use. If you have any such addictions it would be helpful to document how those addictions change with the use of ORMUS.


13. Hair analysis can reveal mineral deficiencies over time. Before and after hair analysis would be helpful.


14. Blood tests can reveal immune system changes and/or cancer indicators. If you think that these things might be changing with your ORMUS ingestion it will be helpful to get copies of these tests from your doctor.


15. If anyone can think of any other things to add to this list I will make the changes.


If you are interested in helping out with ORMUS research but not quite interested enough to do all of the things listed above, documenting any portion of the list will be much better than doing nothing at all. This list order is a rough approximation of the order of importance of these various documentation tasks.


Question: Has anyone ever noticed any ill effects after ingesting ORMUS materials?


Answer: Occasionally people have reported unpleasant effects associated with the use of some of the ORMUS products listed on the SubtleEnergies web site. Most of these effects might be explained as follows:


First, the ORMUS elements appear to stimulate the body's elimination of toxins. This occurs first at the cellular level. As these toxins re-enter the blood stream they can trigger the same symptoms that they triggered when the toxins were originally stored in the cells. These symptoms generally do not persist as long as they did originally but they may be a bit more intense for a short period of time. They are also reported to happen in reverse order from the present to the past. This process is called a "healing crisis". You can read a diary which describes these healing crisis effects from trap water at:


Trap Water Diary


The liver and kidneys have the role of cleansing toxins from the blood and eliminating them from the body. If these organs are not functioning well there can be a buildup of toxins in these organs which might harm them. For this reason it is generally best to do a series of liver cleanses and drink lots of water in conjunction with the initial stages of ORMUS ingestion. From my experience, few people have serious problems with this cleansing stage.


For some people the increased elimination load might result in constipation. The extra magnesium in ocean water ORMUS precipitate can mitigate this as it is the same as the active ingredient of milk of magnesia a notable laxative. An extra benefit is that most people are magnesium deficient and this is a good magnesium source.


Concurrent with the elimination process some people report tiredness or sleepiness. The Essene reported that during this stage some folks will get quite sleepy and that when they wake up they will "eat everything but the curtain rods and then they will go right back to sleep again." We think that this happens because the body is using up the energy stored in ATP to fuel the healing process. There are some indications that this tiredness can be prevented or mitigated by taking extra B vitamins, especially B-12 and the amino acid creatine.


Another issue that has been suggested by several ORMUS researchers and producers is that it is easier to benefit from ORMUS if the body is in a more alkaline state. There is some evidence that ORMUS products, particularly those with a magnesium or calcium base, will tend to alkalize the body. Other ORMUS sources appear to work better when the body is slightly alkaline. Most people on the conventional American diet tend to be acidic. The following foods and situations tend to move one toward the alkaline end of the spectrum:


All vegetables especially green leafy vegetables

Most all fruits including citrus fruits

Millet, Quinoa

Drink several glasses of spring water daily

Ripe olives

Raw almonds

Lima beans, Soy beans

Fresh green peas & green beans


Goat milk (Contains lactose)

Low protein/low fat diet

Whey (contains milk sugar, lactose)

Ghee (clarified butter, a cholesterol-free saturated fat)

Moderate exercise

Relaxation exercises, i.e. deep breathing, yoga, etc.


The following foods and situations tend to move one more toward the less desirable acid end of the spectrum:


Excessive consumption of starches

All seafood. fish fowl ! & all flesh foods

Yogurt, butter, eggs. cow's milk, cheese

Wheat, oats. barley, rice, corn, bread, spelt

Kamut, amaranth, teff, buckwheat

All beans except lima and soy beans

High fat meals (more than 20% of calories from fat)

High protein diet (over 25 grams per day)

All pastas, macaroni, and noodles.

Crackers, chips


Cooked tomatoes, pasta & sauce

Refined Sugar, corn syrup. honey, soda pop

Cookies, cakes, pies, sweets, etc.

Blueberries, cranberries, currants, plums, prunes


Allergic reactions

All nuts & seeds (except almonds)

Tobacco, Drugs

Margarine, lard, hydrogenated oils, corn & olive oil

All fried foods (fried in ghee. butter or oils)

Coffee, tea, alcohol, chocolate

Low water intake

Over exercise, lack of sleep

Anxiety, anger, worry, stress


Experts in this arena suggest that one should consume about 80% alkaline forming foods and 20% acid forming foods. You can find a chart with more information on this subject at:



Finally, David Hudson and others have suggested that certain substances can "pin" the ORMUS elements to their metallic state under some circumstances. These conditions apparently can happen in the body. According to Hudson the substances in question are sulfites (SO3), carbon and carbon monoxide and nitric oxide. Since most of the ORMUS elements are toxic in their metallic form it is wise to avoid foods and situations which increase these substances in the body. There are some indications that the tendency for the ORMUS elements to drop to metal is minimized by having an adequate B-12 intake.


Question: Are there any books out on this subject?


Answer: You can find an ORMUS related booklist at:




Contact me: sumro@zz.com

Help Support Barry's ORMUS Work

Main Index

Barry's Upcoming ORMUS Presentations