Phone Interview with David Hudson

The following questions were compiled by subscribers to the WhiteGold Forum and asked by its moderator (binga) on May 31, 1996.

binga: I have your permission to tape record this, is that correct David?

David Hudson: That's correct.

binga: First question. Besides your Columbus, Ohio lecture scheduled for July, do you have any appearances scheduled for the future?

David Hudson: Where did you hear that?

binga: You know me, I have my thumb in just about everything. You're appearing on Sunday July 14 aren't you?

David Hudson: Yes I am, but I'm not trying to spread the word. I don't want to get a fan club to show up there. What do they call themselves--the Psychotronics? The psychotronic people have asked me to come there, and it works out well for me to go at that time, so I will be speaking there on Sunday. But it's not going to be anything all that different from what you have already heard.

binga: Do you have any other appearances scheduled for the future that you know of?

David Hudson: That's it.

binga: You probably get a lot of mail. How have you been handling your mail as far as reading it and answering letters?

David Hudson: I read everything. I do not answer anything. If people want to be sure I know something they can put it in writing--I do read everything. Unless it's like books or something that don't relate to what I'm doing. If it's a book, I lay the book aside and I may get to it in time, but I am extremely busy right now.

binga: So you don't answer anybody but you do read everything.

David Hudson: Yes I do read everything. Assure them that I do read everything. If it's a letter I read the entire letter, look at who it's from and everything--but I do not answer them in writing. I may call them. Believe it or not, I am keeping every one of these letters. They are all here. I've got about nine boxes here of letters.

binga: Next question involves the Egyptian Rite of Ascension. There is some confusion as to whether it involves gold or iridium.

David Hudson: The Egyptian Rite of Passage. I don't know for sure what it involved. All I can go by is what is written in the text, and they said it was gold.

binga: Do you have what text you got that out of?

David Hudson: Have you read the "Oldest Book of the Dead" and the

binga: Yes, it is available on-line.

David Hudson: Have you read it?

binga: Not word for word.

David Hudson: Read it.

binga: Ok. It's in there?!

David Hudson: Right.

binga: So do you know what's involved to take a full course? There is some confusion as to whether it is 30 days at 500 mg., or 9 months at 250 mg.

David Hudson: I know that they were involved in the 40 day ritual just like the Hebrews were. Apparently it is taken over 40 days. But the actual conversion does seem to take nine months. So it's like that's the period of receiving the semen in your body. But it does take nine months to totally occur.

binga: So you don't know what the dosage is?

David Hudson: You know, this is what we are studying right now. It appears it is at least 500 mg. though.

binga: Every day?

David Hudson: Yes.

binga: And then it's preceded by a 40 day fast. And then you begin the 500 mg.?

David Hudson: Right. Part of the work we're doing as far as perfecting of the body--and I can tell you right now it does require 500 mg. as far as cancer--that we are finding out from all our cell culture studies.

binga: And the course could run at least 30 days, and it could take up to 9 months?

David Hudson: That's correct.

binga: Ok. So it's just depending on the person and what's going on.

David Hudson: Yes.

binga: There was a question as to how much gold would it take (the market value or weight), to make enough ORMEs material--I'm assuming the gold, to complete a full course?

David Hudson: Well, we don't make it from gold. We only do that to demonstrate that the white powder does come from gold. But it's very expensive and very time-consuming. We actually get our gold from the natural ore.

binga: The tailings?

David Hudson: Well it's a natural metal deposit and not tailings. Its never been mined.

binga: Oh, so this is like out of a vein?

David Hudson: No. It's a volcanic upheaval. Immense.

binga: It's sort of like what these other naturally occurring people are claiming they are getting theirs from too.

David Hudson: Right. It's exactly what these naturally occurring people are claiming.

binga: Oh, it is! So it's the same stuff that's just been processed?

David Hudson: No--we are starting with rock. We are doing exactly what they are trying to do.

binga: They are just digging it out of the ground and putting it in bottles, from what I understand. There is no processing to it.

David Hudson: Now that shows how stupid they are. They need to spend about $5 million dollars and learn how to separate it from each other. That's the products they call ISIS White Powder Gold or Etherium Gold--that's what they are doing. From what I understand they are getting it from actually a dry lake bed. And they are just scooping the white powder up off of the dry lake bed.

binga: We are getting ahead of things here. I'm going to skip over that. We will come back to that subject later. I have some questions about that.

The next question: Do you receive any information via "channeling" or direct communication with light beings?

David Hudson: Not that I want to claim. No.

binga: So I guess the next question: if so, in what form do the appear, is not applicable.

The next set of questions refer to the following portion of your Dallas appearance, and I will just quote it. It was a question. I would like to know if you are consuming the substance yourself right now. And your answer was "Because I was the discoverer I felt I should take the material first. I started fasting and we didn't know how much to take. I was taking the gold in very low amounts. My wife on about the third day became aware that I was taking it and she just went ballistic. You would have to meet my wife. She is a very special lady, but she had been reading all the alchemical texts from St. Germaine, and all about people's hair falling out, and their teeth falling out, and their skin peeling off, and she just said 'you will not take this material without my permission'. And out of respect for my wife, I stopped taking the material. She literally made me eat to break the fast. And "since that time we have now five people, one in Texas, who are taking it in the high amounts. They are people who basically had no wife or children, and no prior commitment, and therefore were not afraid of it. But, no I have not taken it, just in very very low amounts."

Could you elaborate on the portion that says "since that time we now have five people, one in Texas, who are taking at high amounts.'

David Hudson: Well that was in the early part of the year. We actually ended up with about nine people who took it in high amounts.

binga: Were they taking iridium, rhodium or gold?

David Hudson: Iridium. Rhodium. No one else has ever taken the gold.

binga: From the Portland appearance: "My wife just said: 'you will not take it anymore.' And my wife is my partner. And I will not take it without my wife's permission. But my wife is taking it now in the low amounts for arthritis, and she's very pleased with the results, and I think very soon she'll say, 'All right Dave, it's okay, we can do it together'. And then I'll take it."

David Hudson: My wife is still taking it believe it or not.

binga: What is she taking?

David Hudson: Rhodium and iridium. She is taking 100 mg. a day. Her nails are dramatically growing faster. She is very pleased because she likes having very nice nails. And she is feeling better.

binga: How is she taking it?

David Hudson: Orally.

binga: Is she doing it sublingually?

David Hudson: No. It is just ingestion in the stomach--just a capsule.

binga: Is she any closer to giving her permission?

David Hudson: I think if I wanted to do it right now she would ok it.

binga: As far as the iridium---

David Hudson: What you got to understand is this is a commitment. You know, you have to change your whole life style. I mean it will change, like it or not. And I have made a commitment to build this plant. And I have to get this plant built. No one else can do it. So my whole focus now is on getting this plant built. When it's built, and on line and working, then I will take it.

binga: And we are talking the gold here, right? Or are we talking rhodium, iridium?

David Hudson: I'll take the rhodium, iridium first. I think you have to perfect your body before you make it permanent okay. I just think you need to adjust. This whole thing about seeing the angels and communicating with the spirits, and all this, you got to get used to it I think.

binga: Yes. It's not something you just decide you are going to do one day.

David Hudson: I think it's heavy duty stuff. I think a person really needs to think about it before they do it.

binga: Yes. I'm finding that more and more. Even with faced with the choices of taking this other material. Let's just say that it did perform the way they say--I feel that I need to be here at present, 100% here, because I have work to do. And maybe later I will take it, depending on what's going on. Let's see. No one has taken the gold. When you took little amounts, did you take gold?

David Hudson: Yes it was.

binga: Did you have any affects?

David Hudson: I don't know. You tell me.

binga: I didn't know you before that. You may be psychic for all I know.

David Hudson: I do just seem to have information. I don't know where it comes from. I accept it. It seems to be correct, it seems to be accurate, and there is a lot of things I do know. But people will become very uncomfortable if I start talking about this. I have to get this plant built. That's what I can tell you.

binga: How much did you take over that three day period--did you measure it?

David Hudson: We dispersed it in water. I had a jug of water that I was drinking from that contained the gold. Probably 4 or 5 mg. total.

binga: And it was in a one-gallon jug?

David Hudson: Water, yeah.

binga: Has anyone to date completed the full iridium/rhodium course?

David Hudson: No.

binga: Is anybody scheduled to?

David Hudson: I don't know what the full course is.

binga: Well, has anybody gone nine months?

David Hudson: No one has ever taken it past six months.

binga: There are people who are obviously taking it now--for a variety of reasons.

David Hudson: No.

binga: Nobody is taking it?

David Hudson: No one is taking it for philosophical reasons now.

binga: We are skipping to another question--because in your January newsletter you mention that two people have purchased large quantities of white powder for ingestion.

David Hudson: That is correct. But it is not gold.

binga: I thought we were talking iridium/rhodium.

David Hudson: Iridium/rhodium--no. No one is taking it. There is some people who have taken it in high amounts for their own personal reasons. But they can't just say Dave I've got to have it. Give it to me.

binga: To your knowledge no one has taken it for nine months. Its only been six months.

David Hudson: You know the material is too expensive first of all. I feel embarrassed asking the amount of money it takes and they feel embarrassed paying it. So the best thing to do is just wait until the plant is on line and then it will be very inexpensive and lots of it.

binga: Well the reason I asked that question is that there are some people who would like to get first person anecdotal information from people who have taken the material.

David Hudson: All of the medical studies we are doing I think will show the information they are going to need. And then what they should do is just ease into it very gently themselves.

binga: When will you be able to make that information available?

David Hudson: Well I am sharing it. I'm just not giving you the names of the people. This next newsletter is going to have more specific information. Will actually have the names of the companies that are doing the testing and some of the results. Also got some charts that show-- And they are doing studies on healthy tissue as well as cancer tissue. They are finding there seems to be no adverse affect on healthy tissue.

binga: Are you going to be giving the amounts that are administered?

David Hudson: These are cell culture studies. And you know this sounds like science, but in fact this is what's happening. These are living cells--taken out of the body and are grown in these cell cultures.

binga: We are waiting for that information, and that's great.

David Hudson: That is very significant information.

binga: Absolutely. Because what has been going on now is we get all these accounts that are third- and forth-person hearsay and you never know who is saying what about anything, and what is true and what's not.

David Hudson: If I seem a little conservative easing into this--you know you have got to be conservative with it.

binga: Well if you don't then we'll get down the line and people will go 'yeah, well what about this', and 'what about the blind studies', and 'what about--'. You know, it's not that you have to prove yourself, but people will want to have things substantiated using the scientific method. That's what most of the people consider.

David Hudson: You got it. I'll be sure I have all of it.

binga: That's what I'm dealing with on a day-to-day basis.

David Hudson: If they can't get it from me, they are going to hit you over the head.

binga: Well no. I can't tell them what I don't know. That's one of the big rules. You know we can't talk about things we don't have first -hand information or experiential information--because that's how rumors get started and that's how misinformation gets perpetuated, and I'm simply not going to be a part of that.

You mentioned an Arizona guy back in the Dallas lecture--that he had become really disturbed, that he lived in north Phoenix--

David Hudson: If you have listened to the tapes I made down there Florida, I do discuss that thoroughly. What's happened to him--

binga: I was there...

David Hudson: Play the tape again,

binga: Okay, I've got a note here, Tampa.

Are we ever going to be able to talk with people who have taken this stuff?

David Hudson: I will be giving you the names of the people doing the research. The people who took it initially with me--that was illegal. So you know I really incriminate myself if I give specific things with that. But the work that's being reproduced under NIH auspices and the doctors who are working with the cell cultures, and all that--I will be giving you all their names when I have the written reports in my hands. And anybody can call them to confirm it, you know 'did you actually do this', 'was this the result you saw'--you know because I'll have the documents in my hands. I can tell people that when I have the documents in my hands.

binga: If you wouldn't mind, if you would check with them if they could set up an E-mail address for questions.

David Hudson: You know these people are research people. They are not in the business of answering, so it would be best rather than everybody call these people--one person or two people call and then make the information available.

binga: Well, I would rather answer E-mail than have to take a phone call. I personally wouldn't post the E-mail address unless they gave their permission, but if they are of the mind to do that...just say E-mail to them and see if they are willing.

David Hudson: I've never done it. I know nothing about it.

binga: You know nothing about no computers. I'm going to drag you into this whether you like it or not.

David Hudson: I need to give that to you too. The new number for the ORMEs LLC. Area code (602) 237-3119. Fax number: (602) 237-3099. This is the number for Science of the Spirit memberships. They are sending out all these letters that everybody is going to scream about in the next two weeks--to all the people who have the IOU's. This number is answered from 9 - 5 weekdays. See I'm going to quit taking these calls before long.

binga: Are you?

David Hudson: Yeah. Only people who have medical problems will I talk to. You would be surprised of the people who listen to these tapes and still want to get memberships. They are still calling me.

Mod. Note: As of June 21, there were 800 of the 5000 SOSF memberships were still available. On the date of this interview there were 152 IOUs/post-dated checks and 120 people on the waiting list. Letters indicating a payment deadline of July 1, have been mailed but as SOSF receives a large amount of mail daily, it is hard to estimate the number of memberships still available (if any) until after the July 1 deadline has passed.

binga: Are you considering putting a warning on the packaging of this material.

David Hudson: Nope.

binga: Caution. Don't operate heavy machinery. Especially if you are having Kundalini experiences.

David Hudson: By the time membership starts getting this material I think we will be very conversant on the subject of this material. And there seems to be no adverse affects, so whatever they do with it is totally up to them. They can dump it in the river or they can swallow it all at one intake, I don't care. They will have to pump their stomach to get rid of it.

binga: When do you anticipate getting it out?

David Hudson: I'm still looking at March or April of next year. It will be online around the first of the year. The equipment is going to start arriving in the next week. All the floors are painted, the buildings are up, the asphalt is laid, the security fences are up, security gates. Electricity is to the property. We are just going to bring whatever electricity we need to run everything.

binga: Did you get the death rays out too?

David Hudson: Yes I did. I know how to do that and know how not to do it.

binga: So what's going on with the clinical studies? You said that they are doing cell testing on cultures?

David Hudson: Yeah. They reproduced it. The NIH has reproduced it. Merck Industries has reproduced it. The place under the rhodium chloride which is the form the rhodium goes to when taken in the stomach. Rhodium chloride when it is placed in the presence of the cancer cells, it causes the cancer cells to slow down their activity by 60%. And that means that they are actually acting like a healthy tissue not cancer tissue.

binga: So it brings it down to a level where they are acting normally?

David Hudson: That's correct. And that has never been seen by any cancer researchers. You know what they are looking at is killing cancer tissue and not hurting healthy tissue. This doesn't kill anything. This just slows it down until it acts normal. It seems to have no affect at all on healthy tissue. And they are very intrigued with this. How is it working because there seems to be no chemistry involved.

binga: So it seems that cancer cells are sped up cells.

David Hudson: Yes. They are normal cells that have literally been altered in some way and this seems to be correcting it. Now they are measuring the reproduction of the amino acids and all that are being produced in the DNA when a cell divides, and they are determining what really is going on the DNA level.

Basically you have got to understand they cannot grow a healthy tissue over an extended period of time in cell cultures. They can grow cancer cells very easily. And so what they have done is to study the healthy tissues to see what affect it had. But they are not doing long term studies. They are working in cancer because they can grow it. They are working on liver cancer, breast cancers. All different kinds of cancers. I have a whole list of them here.

binga: Are they doing AIDS research too?

David Hudson: They are also doing AIDS HIV research in New York.

binga: That's on cell cultures also?

David Hudson: No. The HIV is just the people.

binga: Do they have anything to report yet?

David Hudson: I should have that paperwork next week and I intend to have it in the next newsletter.

binga: Boy this is going to be a juicy newsletter.

David Hudson: It's just going to grow on you. Heavier and heavier.

binga: With graphs and charts and E-mail addresses.

David Hudson: We are getting real cocky now. We are getting enough people to reproduce these results, we are getting it all documented. I will slowly but surely release this.

binga: So are you supplying them with the material or are they making it on their own?

David Hudson: Yes. I am giving it to HIV patients at no charge. I'm giving it to the research people at no charge.

binga: So they are just using your stuff.

David Hudson: That is correct.

binga: How long have the tests been going on with the cancer research? It's been a while.

David Hudson: About five months now.

binga: When are they going to release the information to the public?

David Hudson: The private researcher who did it initially and found how to put it into the solution, has sent the material out to other universities and cancer research clinics, to reproduce the work, and he is now getting back reports on their findings also. And they are finding the very same thing that he found. And so now I am getting documentation and paperwork. Now I can start talking about it.

binga: Once you do that, are you going to try to go through normal channels like with the FDA?

David Hudson: Well this is not analyzable so you can't go through normal channels. But there is nothing wrong with having all the scientific data.

binga: And you are still going to maintain that it is a religious rite?

David Hudson: If you could lay on your hands and cure cancer, and every time you go in and lay on your hands you could cure cancer, and doctors come in and confirm this person has cancer you lay on your hands and they confirm he doesn't have cancer. That may not be science, but it has been confirmed scientifically that it works.

binga: The key is that they can't tell how it works. And if they could tell how, then they would kick it over to the FDA.

David Hudson: Right. They don't know how this works. They don't even know what it is that they are testing. And they are also running blanks, they are also running the same cell culture under the very same condition except that there is none of the ORMEs there, and it doesn't work. And they are running standard rhodium tri-chloride commercially and it doesn't work like this works.

binga: You aren't concerned that somebody isn't going to step in from the powers that be and---

David Hudson: No. I welcome it. First they have to tell me what it is they are wanting. But that's why I have to be careful and don't divulge too much too fast. But we are getting some very powerful results. And like it or not, when it comes down to--will this hurt me, what will happen physiologically when I take it in the macro amount. Basically it perfects the body, and there seems to be no adverse affect at all. This should really be a comfort to people who are willing to take it now. What's going to happen psychologically, what's going to happen to their intuition?

binga: That's just the beginning of that.

David Hudson: Oh yeah. And you know I could tell you that physically there will be no damage, but emotionally boy this is going to get heavy duty real quick.

binga: You had made some references to DNA modification by sys-platinum? Do you have a reference for that?

David Hudson: Right.

binga: There is a subscriber who works with tumor immunology who would like to read up on that.

David Hudson: Yeah. He should get a copy of Platinum Metals Review. Platinum Metals Review is published quarterly by Johnson Matthey over in London.

binga: Do you have a particular issue?

David Hudson: Every issue has a whole section on use of precious elements in cancer. Just tell him to get the last 5-6 years of Platinum Metals Review. Go to a good university, and if they don't have it Inter Library Loan it.

binga: Do you know what the exact mechanism is at work when the DNA relaxes and recombines?

David Hudson: No we do not, and that is what we want to understand, because they have confirmed that the cell is over here and the rhodium is over there and yet relaxation seems to occur, and they want to know how is this occurring. Well I tell you it is through a resonant vibration that we call the Spirit. That's what philosophical people call it. When we understand what the mechanism is, we will be right in the middle of the whole philosophy, I guarantee it.

binga: And there is my next question. Do you have tangible proof of the "light body's" existence?

David Hudson: We have indirect confirmation of it. We are seeing the results and affects of it. And we are studying what goes on with it. But I don't think you ever can actually see it or measure it because I think it's two ways--equal and opposite, and cannot be measured. It's the same thing as superconductivity. Superconductivity cannot be directly measured.

binga: The effects can be measured.

David Hudson: That's right. Indirectly you can see all the effects, but directly there is no direct measurement because there is no differential, therefore no instrumentation will deflect. So we are caught with the very same problem as measuring superconductivity.

binga: So could you speculate that maybe there would be a way of measuring. It just wouldn't involve electro-magnetic forces.

David Hudson: Well the neat thing about it is you can actually make these white powders, and seal hem in an ampoule, and then bring them out into the atmosphere in a sealed ampoule so there is no air interacting with it. And literally when it passes near the body and enters your aura it literally floats. So we now have an aura detector. And no one has ever been able to come up with a machine that interacts with the aura. Now we have an aura detector.

binga: There was some speculation that this material can be used as a psionic amplifier, which I guess it would be the same kind of thing. Not a detector as much, but it would allow a detector to--and I may be getting into an area that I can't sustain in intelligent conversation--

David Hudson: It would be inappropriate for me to comment on that. I don't know enough about it. Is the psionic detector anything like the sciatic nerve?

binga: I don't think so. From my understanding psionics is subtle energy field work, and being able to detect subtle energy.

David Hudson: There is a difference be psychiatry and cell biology. I would rather stay with the cell biology.

binga: We have plenty of other questions that may be of more importance and you may have already said all you could say on this, but I was just curious as to your current status on your NIH alliance.

David Hudson: The NIH funding goes to Bastyr University and it is administered to them. Bastyr University simply oversees the doctors who have registered with them, and keeps track of the patients who are working under the doctors super vision. That's all they do. They do not administer anything. They simply keep records and document what's going on.

binga: So they don't know what's going on, other than this person is signed up to--

David Hudson: Well I have been up there and they know it involves my material and this doctor is working with me. They know that it is not on record.

binga: So you have one guy who is working, and this is the AIDS project?

David Hudson: That's correct. We are going to have so much hard information on that--See the next year they will proceed with those things that seem to be working best.

binga: Are you currently doing any genetic research?

David Hudson: Yeah. That's what all these people in cancer research are--they are geneticists. The man who actually found this first is a man who literally takes the DNA apart and puts the genes where he wants them and puts them back together. And he is speaking in Europe right now. Last week and this week he is speaking over there on the problems of the genetic changes in the engineered materials that are coming on the market, and the potential changes that occur in our DNA due to those DNA changes.

binga: Has he already spoken?

David Hudson: He is speaking. In Copenhagen, Britain, Rome, all over the place.

binga: Would you be able to say who he is and where he is speaking?

David Hudson: No. I promised him anonymity for a few more weeks. All they got to do is find out about those conferences where these hearings are going on. He spoke over her at the hearing in Canada the week before last. This week and next week.. he is going to go over on Wednesday.

binga: What is he speaking on again?

David Hudson: They are having hearings over there on the use of engineered genetic material in food stuffs. Hearings all over the Common Market counters. Whether to allow it, and to license it, and to put it on the market. Whether you should tell the public about it, or let them just slip it in. And he is just saying that he believes that the public should be made aware that this is genetically engineered material. You should let them decide whether they want it. But don't make them think it's the very same thing they have been eating for thousands of years because its not. Of course the people, Monsanto, and people like this, who are making it, don't want the public to know about it. If it gets on the market, then you got no choice. You got to have this stuff.

binga: So this is the same man that's doing the cancer research?

David Hudson: He is the one that did the initial cancer research, yes. He is very prominent and very articulate, and very well-respected in that community. He used to work with the NIH. Everybody knows him. People could put two-and-two together and figure out who he is.

binga: The next two questions call for speculation: Several of us are wondering if perhaps ORMEs does nothing, but rather there are non-physical entities feeding us this info through you, and that consuming white powder gold enables them to manipulate the mind thereby causing the symptoms in the user that are attributed to ORMEs. This may be for their own agenda whether it be for good or evil. This could also be said for the "existence" of "chakras" and "Kundalini flow". Perhaps they are using the scientific and philosophical info to fool the best scientific minds on the planet into thinking that it is the ORMEs that is creating these effects.

David Hudson: Obviously this person is not a member of the Science of Spirit Foundation, and I strongly encourage them not to become a member until they can reconcile this in their own self.

binga: If ORMEs was the manna of the children of Israel during their 40 years of wandering in the desert, why didn't they exhibit any of the effects of it? History shows that they maintained their negative characteristics even though they used manna for many years. How do you explain this? And I have some references from the Dallas Lecture that says, and I will paraphrase it--you will have a new name when you ingest this, and you will be a different person. When you become filled with the spirit, when you become filled with the chrism, you are not the same person you were before.

David Hudson: Right. Yeah, I wasn't there when the Hebrew people were supposedly communing the God.

binga: You weren't?

David Hudson: No I wasn't. But I believe when you carefully study the story of Moses you find out that there is actually two books. There is the one when God dwelt with them at the time of Sinai. And there is another book. And if you carefully study the story of the Exodus, there is actually two texts here, written by two completely separate authors. I don't know, and I cannot say whether or not Moses actually existed, okay? I can't say that. I don't know that he really existed.

I believe that he symbolizes. And the Exodus symbolized a time when God dwelt with the people. And I think after Sinai, it symbolized a time when God withdrew from the people. I think this is in all the ancient texts you read. All of them talk about a time when the Gods lived here and dwelt with us, and we knew the Gods.

And then a time when the God left and then we were here by ourselves. And I think that's a symbolic meaning of the story of the Exodus. I think it's like many other things in the early part of the Bible. It's truth and it's accurate as far as the nature of the story, but it doesn't mean that every piece of it is recorded history. And so I really just think every person has to read it for their own self. Don't ask me--read it themselves. Read the books that I presented. Don't judge me, judge the books. Let them stand on their own merits.

I told everybody, you can have twenty people standing on four corners of an intersection and have two cars run together and have an accident. Walk around and interview everyone standing there who saw the accident, and there is twenty people and you will have 17, 18 different versions.

binga: You may have 42 different versions. They may change their minds after they hear the person next to them.

David Hudson: So you know what I do is I read the texts. And when I begin to see text from India, texts from China, Japan, text from Turkey, text from Hebrew, text from Africa. They all basically tell the same conceptual stories. Then I say "These are coincidences."

So you know I'm not saying it's so, I'm saying boy it's interesting. And we see that these aspects of it all are correct. When the accident occurs, you interview all the people. But basically they will all agree on several things. First of all there is two cars, they ran together. There is something that everybody agrees on. Now beyond that you find out that you find out that everybody has their own perspective and bias. So you have to take all that with a grain of salt.

People should approach this, that what I am working with is like taking an iron pill. And you know you get up to certain levels of iron and it begins to be toxic and you have a problem. Well we are finding there is no toxicity. So I think it's part of proper health and nutrition to have this in their body. All these elements help protect the organs and help us perform as we should.. Okay, that we know. What else does it do? I just find it intriguing that this possibility might exist. And what we have tested thus far indicates that it is happening.

binga: If just 1% of what you're saying happens, it's a miracle.

David Hudson: Yes it is. And so I'm saying, is it not enough we are going to have fuel cells. Is it not enough we are going to have metaloceramics and [turbulent, turbo?] propulsion system. Is it not enough we are going to cure cancer and HIV. Are these not enough? Must you have philosophical also?

binga: We want biolocation!

David Hudson: Okay. I hear you. We will show you, I think, how this will happen and how it can be done. I think this material will dramatically assist you in doing that. But I can't prove it at this time, so it is better that I don't represent that it's going to do this.

binga: There are currently products on the market which reportedly contain monatomic. Have you tested these products?

David Hudson: Which ones.

binga: Etherium Gold, Isis White Powder Gold

David Hudson: I tested Isis White Powder. I've tested Etherium. I've tested Manitol 100. None of them contain any gold.

binga: Acemannan?

David Hudson: Acemannan does not contain any gold but it contains 90% rhodium.

binga: Maharishi Amrit Kalash?

David Hudson: I don't have the numbers but it is quite high in rhodium and iridium both.

binga: What process did you use to test it?

David Hudson: That was done at MIU. They actually did the analysis with my supervision. I was showing them how to do quantitative analysis upon natural products, and they actually have the numbers, not me.

binga: So you did a bench mark test with all those other materials?

David Hudson: No, with the Amrit Kalash. I just said, give me some material that you use for medicinal purposes for cancer or for HIV. And they said well that would be Amrit Kalash. I said fine, lets take some of it and it looks like. Let's scoop some of it up and do an analysis on it. And we ran it about a week and a half. We did quantitative separation of rhodium and iridium, and there's a bunch.

binga: The highest you found in anything?

David Hudson: Oh no. The Acemannan is the highest we found in anything. We are talking about probably 10% maybe of both. [Rhodium and iridium in the Amrit Kalash]

binga: As opposed to your 100%.

David Hudson: That's correct. Or opposed to 90% like Acemannan of the rhodium.

binga: Oh, so 10% vs. 90%.

David Hudson: Yes. Acemannan is a very, very special product. That's why when McDaniels was there in Dallas, I acknowledged his work.

binga: Are you aware there is a guy in Canada making some?

David Hudson: Making what?

binga: Acemannan.

David Hudson: No. And I'm not aware of that material. I'm only aware of Carrington Laboratory's material.

binga: Is it possible to measure parts per million with the analysis you did on the Etherium?

David Hudson: Well on their label they claim they have 64 parts per million. If they are analyzing it the way they claim, it is a metallic and therefore a poison. Okay? If it is really there by the way they analyze work, it is not doing any good in your body.

binga: So there is no way to check this spectroscopically and analyze the monatomics.

David Hudson: That's right. There is no way they are doing it, I absolutely guarantee it.

binga: What is the way you analyze for monatomics?

David Hudson: That's part of the proprietary process. You chemically do the analysis.

binga: Are there any labs that are qualified to analyze at this point?

David Hudson: Not that I have been able to hire. I have been to the best.

binga: And nobody is capable of doing it?

David Hudson: They can be taught. I paid some to do it and taught them. But they had to sign confidentiality agreements. They can't do it now commercially.

binga: So how did you do it at MIU.? You just told them how to do it?

David Hudson: Yes. I stayed there with them and walked them through the whole process.

binga: So when you tested the Etherium and Isis, you tested it I guess with your own lab?

David Hudson: Yes. My own master chemist.

binga: Do you have any comments about Etherium, other than it doesn't have monatomics in it and it's toxic if monatomics are being assayed in the manner they describe?

David Hudson: Many people who have used it claim that it does help their meditations. Okay. The people who are serious mediators. All I can tell you is like marijuana will also help their meditations. You know, I do not know what is really there. I know that it does not contain monatomic gold.

binga: You don't know if it contains iridium or rhodium either?

David Hudson: I can absolutely guarantee as far as the precious elements in the monatomic form, there is zilch there. You will get more drinking one glass of carrot juice every two or three days then you get taking their material.

binga: That reminds me. On this Seneca grape juice thing--we talked about that before, it registers really high in monatomics. But you said the sugar offsets whatever benefit you might get. So carrot juice is probably the best.

David Hudson: Yes. That is my opinion.

Mod. Note: I really wish that I'd thought to ask him "why" sugar offsets the benefits...

binga: Here is a question that references the Dallas lecture--and I don't want to read it all. It just says where things burn off at different rates. The question is though, where do --

David Hudson: Don't believe that given the information I gave you at the Dallas lecture that people can actually figure out how do this on their own. There is a whole bunch more going on here that I didn't tell you about.

binga: The question is where do the normal metallic forms of these elements read?

David Hudson: That was what I was telling you...where they read. Get a copy of the book which is called the Analytical Chemistry of the Platinum Group Elements by Ginsburg. And look under spectroscopic section and you will find all the references.

binga: And this is what you were quoting in the Dallas lecture?

David Hudson: Right.

binga: Next question. There are a couple of different things. One in Portland where you are talking about the white gold fusing into glass.

David Hudson: Yes.

binga: In Portland you say at is at 1160 and from the UK patent it says that it's at 1200. And the question is what's the exact temperature.

David Hudson: White gold melts at 1160. But we are doing all this under a controlled atmosphere in a tube furnace and you have to get above the temperature that it physically melts. 1160 is when gold melts. But you heat a furnace to 1160 with gold and it won't melt. You have to go above it. So if I tell people 1200 in a patent, at 1200 it will melt. At 1250 you get it to melt.

As long as you get it under a vacuum system it will melt. And you should know that I have a four-tube furnace, six foot long tubes, eight inch tubes. And each one has huge vacuum pumps on each tube. So I can actually pull vacuums on this while I'm heating it That's my production furnace.

[It's] custom made for IBM. Costs $1.7 million. They ran it for a week and a half and shut it down they sold their facility--and I ended up getting it. It is such an immense machine, I had to build a separate building just to put the machine in it.

binga: And the people who were selling it said, well we don't know what it is but it sure is pretty.

David Hudson: They knew what it was, they got eight or ten of them here but this one is far bigger than any. It's just not the kind of thing that people in research need. It has automatic feeders that actually feed the boats full of material in and yet they never touch the boat. The boat never touches the tube. It actually feeds it in and suspends it in there on the feeder, all while in a vacuum. And you can feed your gases in, and they are being vacuumed out as fast as you are feeding them in so they never create an atmosphere. They are actually on a negative pressure all the time.

It is quite fantastic. Twenty-five feet long, about 10.5' high. I just can't believe I got the thing. Whoa. It's a brand new machine.

binga: It's better than getting a pony for Christmas.

David Hudson: The guy that is setting it all up for me, said Dave buy it. I would ask $550 to $600,000 for it. That's used.

binga: And they hadn't used it a week, and it's in perfect condition.

David Hudson: Extra tubes with it and everything. All the equipment I've got here, with all its glass-lined tanks. If you can imagine a 15,000 gallon steel tank, glass-lined. Where would you find such a thing?

binga: Joel & Jerry's Deep Discount?

David Hudson: You know Stouffer Chemical up in the Bay area is moving to Georgia, and are shutting down their labs, and everything they had was for sale. Reactors, chemical storage tanks, glass-lined pipes, valves- everything. They are just scrapping it out salvage. I bet you I bought thirty glass-lined tanks--and where do you find glass-lined tanks?

binga: Not at WalMart I'll tell you.

David Hudson: Everybody has gone to plastic now. I'm heating these acids and so not only does it have to be chemically resistant, but it has to be high temperature.

When you walk in this building, you are going to say my God, my God...what is Dave doing in here?

David Hudson: It's going to look like a petroleum refinery.

binga: Now I know you talked before about monatomics being non-toxic. How did you determine that monatomics are not toxic?

David Hudson: Well just from the work we have done with it. The people who have taken it. There have been no adverse affects. And now with the cancer studies going on, they have determined there is no adverse affects. The doctors who are doing it say Dave you know we would have no reservations about having someone take it. You put precious metals into these cell cultures and they literally kill the cells in that area. And this stuff has no affect at all on healthy tissues. None at all.

binga: So I guess the monatomic osmium--even though osmium is toxic on a metallic level, wouldn't be a consideration?

David Hudson: Yeah. You just don't want to be heating it and distilling it because this osmium tetra-oxide is still poisonous, and it will affect the ocular tissue if you heat it and volatize it. But in the form you will be getting it and the way you people will handle it is no problem.

binga: What levels of temperature are we talking about as far as heating it?

David Hudson: Oh, like 450 degrees.

binga: So it's not like if you left it in your car.

David Hudson: No.

binga: There is a question as to the phone number for Argon National Laboratories or where they are.

David Hudson: United States Government National Research Facility. If they can't find that one I feel sorry for them. If they call the Argon directory assistance in Argon, Illinois, and ask for Argon National Laboratories, they will get a number.

binga: And Mike McNallen --

David Hudson: Is not at Argon National--

binga: No, he's MIT metallurgical chemist. I understand that. Do you have a phone number; is he still at MIT?

David Hudson: Certainly I do.

binga: Is he at MIT still?

David Hudson: No he's not. He is in the Chicago area.

binga: Okay. Well that's about all I'm going to get out of you on that one.

David Hudson: You got it.

binga: I can tell when the hole's getting dry.

You mentioned in several places that nitrous oxide and also short wave UV light will de-spin the monatomic platinum group elements into their metallic form?

David Hudson: That's not correct. That's not what I said.

David Hudson: Ultraviolet light will, yes.

binga: Will nitrous oxide?

David Hudson: No. That's the wrong word. For your information, it's nitric oxide. It's not N20, it's not N2O2, it's NO. It's called nitric oxide.

binga: Okay. So nitric oxide will de-spin the monatomic platinum group elements into their metallic forms?

David Hudson: It will take them from the high-spin state back to the low-spin state. They are still monatomic. It kills the atoms in your body. That's what people have to understand. It kills the atoms in their body and no longer flows the light in that area.

binga: The nitric oxide does.

David Hudson: The nitric oxide does. Okay When it kills it, it also does something else. When it kills it, a one million electron volt photon is produced and that is gamma level. And it is always absorbed by the binding atom that is binding it. But the electron pair that is annihilated is not now under the control of the ORMEs material. It is now under the control of nitric oxide. And so the nitric oxide now becomes radioactive carbon 14.

binga: In the body?

David Hudson: In the body. So nitrogen 14 becomes radioactive carbon 14 in the body when it kills the high-spin state back to low -spin state. This is how they date corpses. When they find a corpse 15,000 years old, they date it by radioactive carbon.

binga: Yes. Carbon dating.

David Hudson: Because they know that radioactive carbon 14 appears in living beings, and when they die it stops being produced. This is what's going on. One-percent of the air you breathe is nitric oxide. You must breathe oxygen to live, and yet in doing it you are dying.

binga: Oh, I love that.

David Hudson: And that is a paradox isn't it. That's the way it works. And these atoms are continually dying in your body. And you are getting a few more every time you eat the right stuff, but you are not getting as much as are dying.

binga: So it's a deficit thing.

David Hudson: You only got 70-80 years and you are gone. The light is actually so diminished that it literally quits flowing and then stops, and you are dead.

Now, if you could put these atoms back into the body to offset those that are being pinned then you literally correct the DNA in all the cells, it could be back like it was when you were a teenager, and you can live for 800-1000 years.

binga: So you are banking it basically.

David Hudson: That's it.

binga: Okay, we have already covered the status of the production facility. And you said in March or April you will start with the distribution?

David Hudson: Right. Ninety days after it becomes online then we will be able to tally up, divide it up, and send it out to members.

binga: And how much finished product per day are you anticipating?

David Hudson: We are looking at least 2300 mg.

Mod. Note: estimated perdiem/per membership distribution of the monatomic gold is 16-19 mgs gold and 1400-1500 mgs monoatomic iridium and rhodium.

binga: That's a daily total.

David Hudson: So you will get a shipment of 90 times that amount.

binga: How do you intend to distribute it. Is it going out quarterly UPS.

David Hudson: Yes quarterly, and it will go by UPS right now, unless we can think of somebody who is cheaper.

binga: And in what forms will it come in? Will it be separated gold, iridium,...

David Hudson: All separated, in individual containers, depending on the amounts that you are getting. It will be in individual containers and identified as such. It will be ORME Ruthenium, ORME Osmium, ORME Platinum, ORME Palladium, ORME Rhodium, ORME Iridium, and ORME Gold.

binga: So what are you supposed to do with all those other elements? What do they do?

David Hudson: Well that's what we are studying. And we will be telling people as we get the results.

binga: Oh so it will be like you get the red powder and the green powder.

David Hudson: They are all gray to white. Now if we were making the chloride, then they get dramatically different. But I believe that it is altogether possible for people who need it for medicinal purposes, they will want it in the chloride form, because even though when it absorbs in the body it lets go of the chloride, it does act as a dispersing agent and makes your body 100% capable of absorbing all of it. Whereas if you take it as a powder, all the rhodium gets absorbed, most of the iridium doesn't. So as we develop these results, we will be sharing that with the membership also.

binga: In the chloride form, is it a liquid?

David Hudson: No. The chloride form is a dry powder, but like rhodium is a red powder, gold is an orangy red, iridium is a green. It is actually a crystalline material.

binga: So you just ingest it?

David Hudson: Yes. But you can put that in water and dissolve it.

binga: How soon in the future will everyone on the planet be taking this material.

David Hudson: Within three years.

binga: That quickly?

David Hudson: Yes, you just watch. Just see what happens. The momentum is just going to build continually.

binga: When you show up on Dateline, that's when it's going to hit the fan....I know there are some "bad boys' out there....

David Hudson: They won't understand it. They'll say 'He's just off his rocker."

binga: Why didn't you sell metallic gold to finance your production facility?

David Hudson: That's what I tried to do originally and when I finally learned how to do it, my partners were not able to deliver the money. That's why I had to sue them. And it was only the beginning of last year, when I was in total bankruptcy myself I finally won the judgment against these guys. But I have no money myself. I had nothing a year ago, nothing. I didn't have a home. I didn't have anything. How do you built a plant with nothing?

So I'm building a pilot system with these donations. Now remember, this is a pilot system but it is going to produce one ton a day of material. We will have finished product coming out.

binga: How many other facilities are you going to build?

David Hudson: You watch! This thing is going to go!

binga: What is your connection to the Rockefellers?

David Hudson: They had me to the Rockefeller center. I met with Bootsy Galbreith and Peter Chris [?]. I forgot his name, anyway the head of the Rockefeller Foundation about this. Bootsy was in awe of this and came out here to Arizona and spent about a week writing up all my paperwork for me. She took it back to Peter Chris who is in charge of both David and Lawrence's money. But she told me Peter was a "one-page' guy. If it has more than one page, he won't read it. She came back with about eight or nine inches of folders and documents. And Peter Chris would never look at it. After about two weeks, she said "Dave, I don't think he's ever going to read it." And I said, "Send it back Bootsy." So she sent it back and they have nothing on me now. Ok?

binga: Some people have mailed checks and had them cashed, and then they haven't heard anything, and hadn't gotten any newsletters. Do you know what that's about?

David Hudson: If that has happened and it's been over say a month and a half, tell them to give us a call. Preferably call the number I just gave you. And if they have a copy of that check, where they can send us a copy, and it's endorse by us and they are not listed, we will get them listed. Most of these people just send a check, and it has only been two or three weeks and they haven't received anything so they get all nervous.

What I have done now that all the memberships are sold, I'm holding issuing any memberships until I got these letters out. Then I told my son to go ahead and take the first 2-300 because I know we will have that many who will forfeit--and go ahead and send them their receipt, but to not get crazy on this. To hold back to be sure what number we have.

binga: You stated before that you were going to give away the ORMEs material?

David Hudson: That's correct. Yes we are, we will solicit a donation, but if you don't have the money then we'll give it to you.

binga: How do you think that will affect the people of the foundation who have paid for the material?

David Hudson: Everybody had to have listened to tapes or heard my presentation. So I told everybody on the tape. They are saying: Dave we want to help build this plant. If we don't get it built nobody gets anything. A lot of them say they don't care whether they even have a membership. They just want to help the project.

Well the membership will get it about a year earlier than the general public. That's what most people want. They just want it now. The general public will be offered it and people will not be drawn to it. I

People who come here, present themselves, and ask for the material, and they say Dave I've given all my money to the poor and the needy, I don't have any money, yet they drive up in a brand new Rolls Royce and tell me they don't have any money, I know it's not true. I think you will see it will all resolve itself okay?

binga: You stated that you can't sell the material. Why is that?

David Hudson: You can't sell the ORMEs product.

binga: Because of the foundation?

David Hudson: Well there is all sorts of legal reasons too, but it's not correct, you're selling the spirit and the spirit is not to be sold. This is just a substance that literally receives the spirit vibration and brings it into our material body. You cannot sell that. That is something that is far greater than money. You go to the wealthiest man in the world and ask him if he would like to live another year or if he wants his money, and he will say "God, where do I sign, you can have all my money." So what's money worth?

We are going to be making $750,000 a day on the balance of the material. 25% is going to the membership, 25% I'm setting aside to give away. I will give more if people need it.

binga: Well the whole concept of money, wealth and ownership is going to go out the window anyway.

David Hudson: That's right. And every bit of my money, whatever it might be, goes to an off-shore trust that then is all set up to be given away anyway. So if anybody worries what I'm getting, it's all going for medical research. It isn't really going for Dave Hudson personally.

binga: Somebody is asking about that NASA, where you can scrape off the tissue out of the cheek of the astronauts.

David Hudson: Ask Joe Champion about it. Joe got upset when I said that too. He said where did you find that out Dave--nobody is supposed to know that. I read about that in one of the books I had. It is known now, okay? And just ask Joe and he will tell you. And he can add to the story a little bit.

binga: Has your information been published by any mainstream physics journals?

David Hudson: Not that I'm aware of.

binga: Will it occur in the near future?

David Hudson: I'm being asked by a Professor [Bochrist?} to come back down there. He says they are having a cold fusion conference strictly on the subject of the asymmetric deformed high-spin state. And he is wanting to talk to me. They may get this published, I don't know.

binga: Would you be interested in collaborating with Hal Puthoff?

David Hudson: If Puthoff was interested in it, but I don't want people pushing Puthoff to do it. I think it is more appropriate to have somebody like these guys on the cold fusion come forward with it. They have the credentials, but they are being pooh-poohed right now. They have something at stake. I think it's more appropriate to introduce it as the high-spin state. This whole subject is now in all the journals. Everybody is talking about the high-spin state of these atoms now.

binga: What's the current state of the fuel cell research?

David Hudson: You know the fuel cell research is basically all proven. It's in place right now. GE, Westinghouse, all these people have it. Most of the patents have run out. The best people right now is Ballard Research up in Vancouver. We have not contacted them because when we arrive we are going to bring a bucket of material and just say mount it in the electrodes for us. We will contract with them and do it. But right now if you want to check them out, Ballard Research in Vancouver is by far the most advanced people right now in the solid polymer electrolyte technology.

binga: Do you see it as something that is going to be suppressed?

David Hudson: The Energy Power Research Institute, which does all the advanced testing for all the commercial utility companies, has concluded that fuel cells are the power system of the 90's. This is 1996. They are ready right now. The Japanese have built the plants, they are on-line, all we're waiting for is the catalyst.

binga: Somebody I know has some buckets of it.

David Hudson: When we arrive, they are going to welcome us. They are going to say: "Who are you?" And we're going to say: "We are the guys with the buckets."

binga: Okay, we are down to the last thing. And the last one is more of a suggestion which deals with something that this person sees as a genuine obstacle for the commercial success of the rhodium plant, and how it would affect all of those interested in seeing your work succeed should this problem go unsolved. The concept occurred to him the instant he heard you speaking at the Portland appearance. Here is what he says: You mentioned in your July 1995 Portland presentation that there is a nine month delay involved in reducing the monatomic state to metal.

David Hudson: Yeah. I have just successfully found a way of doing it in about fifteen seconds.

binga: Does it involve nuclear magnetic resonance?

David Hudson: No it did not.

binga: Do you want to elaborate on it?

David Hudson: No we do not. The gentleman who has built it has run it and it's working. And he called and told me what he was doing an I said I can tell you exactly what to do, and I told him what he was doing in detail. And he said that's correct. And I assumed it can be done that way, but I hadn't proved it. And he has done it, built it. It cost him $26 million, but he's done it. So I bought the equipment and we are going to be building that also.

binga: Do you want to hear this guy's suggestion?

David Hudson: What?

binga: Have you considered using NMR to add energy to the carbon atom in the complex, as a means of transferring energy into the system?

David Hudson: Yes we have. And we can actually resonate the nucleus for a period of time, and then switch it to the next frequency that the nucleus would resonate and literally take it up in energy step-by-step by doing that. And yes we have followed it, and it would have to be a complete research project from ground zero to learn how to do it, and we figured out a way to do/now in about 15 seconds now and we are building this equipment.

binga: Okay, so you're all set then.

David Hudson: Yes. Mother nature does it over time, but then we just hit it and it's there.

binga: Now we have talked about this before, but I wondered if you changed your mind about including information on a web page.

David Hudson: We have not changed our mind.

binga: The answer is still no?

David Hudson: Right. Right, no.

binga: Would you give permission to post past newsletters to the forum?

David Hudson: I would rather not. There has got to be a reason for being members, and so only when all the memberships are gone, there is no hope then I will consider it, okay?

binga: There was another question--I must have skipped it. Are you still writing your book?

David Hudson: I haven't been doing anything on it, but it will be written and will be published by the time the plant is in production and marketing to the general public.

binga: Would you be interested in answering another set of questions at some point?

David Hudson: Not really. I wasn't interested in this. Only because it's you. I wouldn't do it for anybody else.

Mod. Note: This concludes the phone interview with David Hudson. Although I am a member of SOSF and helped bring David to Tampa, I am in no way officially connected to Hudson or his organization(s). As such, I do/can/will not speak for him on any subject. This document is not copyrighted and may be distributed in its entirety only. To subscribe to the WhiteGold Forum: email To contact me directly:

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